User talk:Marie-Alice Le Corvec

Hi, I am the archivist for the Centre de recherche bretonne et celtique (CRBC) at Université de Bretagne occidentale (UBO, Brest). I work with Jean-Baptiste Pressac, who contacted Factgrid recently, on making available descriptions and data from archival fonds preserved by the CRBC. I'm currently working on a private family fonds (Miorcec de Kerdanet) who have more than 50 related individuals identified in their papers, with links to historical French and Breton institutions and agents of justice as well as writers and researchers from the 19th century. I'm currently looking for an open tool to generate a family tree people interested in the fonds might consult during their research.

Item:Q636357 - abstract art, one way or another...

I (Olaf Simons (talk)) am moving the following remarks of User:Martin Gollasch from the talk page of Item:Q636357 to the user page that should be addressed here:

Hello Marie-Alice, regarding the other items instance of Type of work, Abstract art, is more an art genre regarding Wikidata's abstract art. You could create a FactGrid item equivalent to art genre and declare that Item:Q636357 is an instance of the aforementioned.

Something is going wrong here: the German label is translated "abstract art", English and French label describe a special vine label. That needs definitely a clean up. You should not change the content of an item. Better create a new one. This is a total mess...--Martin Gollasch (talk) 10:13, 24 October 2023 (CEST)

Looking at the history I think I know what happened. The Iconclass perspective - "abstract art" went into a Wikipedia link on abstract art, and a German label of that topic.

Links to Wikipedia must go to an 100% match of the item. Further reading on abstract art (in Wikipedia) can be a property "online information", but not an external identifier.

I am, just by the way, not quite sure what kind of project we are entering here. I could imagine a research projet on wine labels with a clear research question and a defined body of items, but I would not consider to feed all the wine labels of the world into FactGrid. (Wikidata is presently flooded with scientific research articles - bibliographic information and this is a problem). We should focus on defined research questions and on projects that can be discussed in the field of historical research. I can well imagine a project on wine labels, but so far no one has introduced this project with its aims and potentials. --Olaf Simons (talk) 11:33, 24 October 2023 (CEST)

Dear Olaf,

Thank you for the remarks and the follow-up on the page I modified (changed from Abstract Art to [Richemont...]) and your questions on the research project.

Regarding the project : The Papeteries Armoricaines et Morlaisiennes were an important printing house located in Brest, which ran from the end of the 1920s till a few years ago, and which specialised in creating for mostly local shopkeepers original labels (mostly wine, but local food as well : peas, fish... even cleaning products). We have in our archival fonds files regarding customers and their requested labels, and are currently trying to work on a way to, at the same time, be able to study the geographic location of the customers asking for the PAM's printing/artistic services as well as study the subjects depicted in those labels and how the information is transmitted in them (what language, words, typography...). A book was published when the PAM closed a few years ago, highlighting potential research that could be made from the content of the fonds, and their labels : Image & Commerce de la fin du XIXe siècle à nos jours, dir. Maryse Cuzon, Philippe Jarnoux, Marie-Michèle Lucas & Florent Miane( url : https://www.univ-brest.fr/crbc/menu/%C3%89ditions+du+CRBC/Collection+Collectif/Image---Commerce-de-la-fin-du-XIXe-siecle-a-nos-jours). I can summarize the subjects concerned as follow : history of printing techniques, of visual popular culture and its influences (the colonial aspect of some of the Labels is particularly striking in that aspect), uses of regional languages in popular objects (here : breton) etc. I hope this helps, but if you need more info I would be happy to share them with you.

Regarding the Abstract Art now modified page : we were interested in using the genres Abstract Art / Figurative Art to define labels for the goals of the project. But, after having realized the complexity of defining such items (necessity of creating other pages such as "art genre" etc), and re-thinking our use of the IconClass Classification System for visual art, we've decided to forego the need for such items in FactGrid, and will instead be using when necessary the IconClass propriety for Abstract Art ("O"). I knew I couldn't delete the page created, but I thought I could re-purpose it for the project (turning it into a wine label item) so as to avoid having an unfinished item floating around the database. However, if it creates "a total mess" as user Martin Gollasch says, I'm willing to find another way to register the wine label involved. What would you suggest ? (creating straight away a copy-paste item before deleting Item:Q636357 ...) Marie-Alice Le Corvec (talk) 14:37, 25 October 2023 (CEST)